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2013 mod 2 part A
#1
Dear all,
please find attached 2013 question paper and layout 1,

please clarify in layout 1 there are no required headway times(unlike previous year layouts ) then how we will decide which is best signalling(3 or 4 aspects) for the layout based on our calculations ?




Regards
Sai kishore Polana
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#2
Look at what is shown at the left-hand end of the layout:

a) Between B and G, determine the best theoretical headway for both 3 and 4 aspect signalling at uniform minimum signal spacing and non stop train speed of 140 km/h. Explain how the results of the headway calculation determines your choice of signalling system.

So for a), you do not worry initially about the headway required by the train service; you are just saying what is the best that can be achieved by 3 aspects and the best that can be achieved by 4 aspects.

However to answer the last sentence you do need to compare these values with what is needed for the layout. You are indeed correct that in 2013 paper there is not a specified minimum time between following trains, but what you need to do is look ahead to section c). This tells you the traffic requirements on various portions of the layout. You need to make an assessment of the traffic needs yourself from this information.

Look at the section C to D and add up how many trains are to use it in a one hour period. Basically it looks like 5 passenger trains plus 2 freights every hour and once in the day the empty passenger stock movement. Simplistically you could ad up and say that is 8 trains per hour and therefore a 7 minute headway would suffice. This is obviously incorrect because there is a mixture of different sorts of trains- the speed of the nonstop trains quite a bit faster than the freights and indeed the stopping passengers will traverse the section even slower as they will be braking, dwelling and accelerating again after the station. Therefore these trains "eat up" more capacity than the equivalent number of fast trains would have.
In addition the 8 trains are not likely to be timetabled to present themselves at time separations equally spaced during that hour and it is necessary that the signalling can provide for one train to follow another rather more closely- some gaps between trains will be greater than the nominal 7 minute average hence other gaps will be smaller; the signalling must be designed to cope with the smallest separation likely to arise. This is before we take intro account that the signalling needs to have an element of contingency built in to make allowance for the fact that in reality time keeping isn't perfect and certain trains sometimes may be a little late- we wouldn't want one delayed train to have knock on effects to lots of other services so there must be an element of contingency for such perturbations.
Hence it is time to state an assumption based on experience and say that, having considered the above factors, you have determined that the signalling should be capable of providing double that number of train paths and therefore ought to be designed to deliver 3.5 minute headway.

Remember it is not the precise number that you should worry about, and others might have argued for a 2.5 minute headway whereas others for a 4.5 minute. None of these are necessarily wrong. The examiners won't quibble; without knowing the timetabling of the various train services the smallest interval can't be known. It is the factors which you know you ought to take into account, the explanation of why and the logical process used which is more important. Ultimately you make "an educated guess" at a number you justify and then use that number to answer that last part of question a) andbefore finally using the solution when placing signals on the layout diagram.


b) Determine, graphically or by calculation, the best headway for a non stopping train from B to G ..... under clear signals, following the departure of a stopping train from the Down Loop at Station C to the Down South Branch at Junction D.

c) Train running requirements in each direction:
Passenger: between B and G (non-stopping) 2 per hour
Passenger: between B and G (stopping) 2 per hour
Passenger: between A and C (Terminating at C) 1 per hour
Passenger: between A and E 1 per hour
Passenger: Running empty between Down Sidings at C and B 1 per day
Freight: between A and G 1 per hour
Freight: between B and E 1 per hour
Freight: from G to A calling at the Private Siding at F 1 per week
[/b]



(20-02-2014, 06:59 AM)sai.kish55@gmail.com Wrote: Dear all,
please find attached 2013 question paper and layout 1,

please clarify in layout 1 there are no required headway times(unlike previous year layouts ) then how we will decide which is best signalling(3 or 4 aspects) for the layout based on our calculations ?




Regards
Sai kishore Polana
PJW
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#3
Thanks PJW
It was very good explanation,,,
once again txs very much for quick response.
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#4
Herewith non-stopping Calculations for 2013 paper, for comments.
I've already spotted the major clanger of using the wrong braking distance, however, that said I'm not going to re-do this bit at the moment.

Stopping calcs to do when I can get my head round what is required, although I've already signalled the layout!
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#5
(17-04-2014, 09:02 PM)dorothy.pipet Wrote: Herewith non-stopping Calculations for 2013 paper, for comments.
I've already spotted the major clanger of using the wrong braking distance, however, that said I'm not going to re-do this bit at the moment.

Stopping calcs to do when I can get my head round what is required, although I've already signalled the layout!

One for Peter how do we work out C without knowing the station dwell time? Surely the headway for the non stopping train depends on the stopping train??
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#6
(18-06-2014, 10:12 AM)StrongLifts5x5 Wrote:
(17-04-2014, 09:02 PM)dorothy.pipet Wrote: Herewith non-stopping Calculations for 2013 paper, for comments.
I've already spotted the major clanger of using the wrong braking distance, however, that said I'm not going to re-do this bit at the moment.

Stopping calcs to do when I can get my head round what is required, although I've already signalled the layout!

One for Peter how do we work out C without knowing the station dwell time? Surely the headway for the non stopping train depends on the stopping train??
Not sure what you mean when you refer to C above. The question does not state a dwell time but asks you to state any assumptions - the implication here is that you have to identify that dwell time is an issue and state a reasonable value for that in your calculations. You are right that the overall headway will be constrained by the stopping train but the question does state that you need to work out what the headway is for a non stop train following a stopper.

Hope that helps.

Peter
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#7
(18-06-2014, 03:55 PM)Peter Wrote:
(18-06-2014, 10:12 AM)StrongLifts5x5 Wrote:
(17-04-2014, 09:02 PM)dorothy.pipet Wrote: Herewith non-stopping Calculations for 2013 paper, for comments.
I've already spotted the major clanger of using the wrong braking distance, however, that said I'm not going to re-do this bit at the moment.

Stopping calcs to do when I can get my head round what is required, although I've already signalled the layout!

One for Peter how do we work out C without knowing the station dwell time? Surely the headway for the non stopping train depends on the stopping train??
Not sure what you mean when you refer to C above. The question does not state a dwell time but asks you to state any assumptions - the implication here is that you have to identify that dwell time is an issue and state a reasonable value for that in your calculations. You are right that the overall headway will be constrained by the stopping train but the question does state that you need to work out what the headway is for a non stop train following a stopper.

Hope that helps.

Peter

What I'm trying to say is I would work out the headway for a stopping train and this would also be the same headway for a non stopping train??

I find the question pretty vague because as the slower stopping train is leaving the station the faster non-stopper will quickly be catching up, obviously the headway for a non stopper will be smaller than a stopper its how you factor them together I'm confused on. I'm not saying do the answer for me just a pointer!!
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#8
(18-06-2014, 04:07 PM)StrongLifts5x5 Wrote: What I'm trying to say is I would work out the headway for a stopping train and this would also be the same headway for a non stopping train??

I find the question pretty vague because as the slower stopping train is leaving the station the faster non-stopper will quickly be catching up, obviously the headway for a non stopper will be smaller than a stopper its how you factor them together I'm confused on. I'm not saying do the answer for me just a pointer!!

You are right in the scenario you describe. The question is asking you to look at two different scenarios that may occur at different times in the service pattern. The fast headway is for periods that fast trains follow each other and the stopping headway effectively describes the effect of putting in a stoppig train. How you mix and timetable the trains given the headway would determine the total number of trains that you get through.

Yes, the worst will always rule how you space the signals, but you are looking for the optimum solution which meets the the operators needs but without oversignalling.
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#9
Dear Guys

May I have any review the calculation?

I was stunned with the unfamiliar question and took a longer time to come up with the idea. Hopefully I have done it correctly.

Thanks
Arnut
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#10
Fixed last page
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